Legislature(2007 - 2008)BARNES 124

02/26/2007 01:00 PM House RESOURCES


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01:03:11 PM Start
01:03:19 PM Confirmation Hearings:|| Big Game Commercial Services Board
01:12:19 PM Board of Game
01:31:36 PM Big Game Commercial Services Board
01:35:18 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ Confirmation Hearings: TELECONFERENCED
Big Game Commercial Services Board
Board of Game
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
               HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
                       February 26, 2007                                                                                        
                           1:03 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Carl Gatto, Co-Chair                                                                                             
Representative Craig Johnson, Co-Chair                                                                                          
Representative Vic Kohring                                                                                                      
Representative Bob Roses                                                                                                        
Representative Paul Seaton                                                                                                      
Representative Peggy Wilson                                                                                                     
Representative Bryce Edgmon                                                                                                     
Representative David Guttenberg                                                                                                 
Representative Scott Kawasaki                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CONFIRMATION HEARINGS                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Big Game Commercial Services Board                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     Leif Wilson - Tok                                                                                                          
     Richard Rohrer - Kodiak                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     - CONFIRMATIONS ADVANCED                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Board of Game                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Bob Bell - Anchorage                                                                                                       
     Ben Grussendorf - Sitka                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     - CONFIRMATIONS ADVANCED                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
No previous action to report                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                              
LEIF WILSON, Appointee                                                                                                          
to the Big Game Commercial Services Board                                                                                       
Tok, Alaska                                                                                                                     
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Spoke  as  an  appointee  to the  Big  Game                                                              
Commercial Services Board.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
BOB BELL, Appointee                                                                                                             
to the Board of Game                                                                                                            
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Spoke as an appointee to the Board of Game.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
BEN GRUSSENDORF, Appointee                                                                                                      
to the Board of Game                                                                                                            
Sitka, Alaska                                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT:  Spoke as an appointee to the Board of Game.                                                                
                                                                                                                              
RICHARD ROHRER, Appointee                                                                                                       
to the Big Game Commercial Services Board                                                                                       
Kodiak, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Spoke  as  an  appointee  to the  Big  Game                                                              
Commercial Services Board.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                              
CO-CHAIR  CRAIG  JOHNSON  called   the  House  Resources  Standing                                                            
Committee  meeting  to  order  at  1:03:11  PM.    Representatives                                                            
Johnson, Gatto,  Roses, Wilson,  Seaton, and Kohring  were present                                                              
at the  call to  order.  Representatives  Guttenberg,  Edgmon, and                                                              
Kawasaki arrived as the meeting was in progress.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
^CONFIRMATION HEARINGS:                                                                                                         
^Big Game Commercial Services Board                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:03:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  JOHNSON  announced  that  the first  order  of  business                                                              
would  be the  confirmation hearing  for the  Big Game  Commercial                                                              
Services Board.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:03:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
LEIF  WILSON,  Appointee  to  the  Big  Game  Commercial  Services                                                              
Board, stated that  he has served on this board for  the last year                                                              
and two  months.  He  is honored that  Governor Palin  has decided                                                              
to re-appoint  him.  He said that  he feels the board  is having a                                                              
positive  effect  on  raising  the  standards  and  improving  the                                                              
industry,  and that  it  will continue  to  do so.    Most of  the                                                              
problems facing the  industry do not have easy  solutions and they                                                              
often involve people's livelihoods.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR.  WILSON  stated that  he  is  the president  and  director  of                                                              
operations  for Forty  Mile Air,  a commuter  air taxi that  holds                                                              
big game  transporter license number six.   He is an  airplane and                                                              
power plant  mechanic, and is an  airline transport pilot.   He is                                                              
a  lifelong  resident  of  Alaska and  has  hunted,  trapped,  and                                                              
fished throughout  his life.   He spent  14 seasons as  a deckhand                                                              
on a  gillnetter in  Bristol Bay.   He said that  for the  last 10                                                              
years he  has served  as a member  of the Upper  Tanana/Forty-Mile                                                              
Fish &  Game Advisory Committee.   He has  been involved  with the                                                              
transportation  of hunters  for the  past 23  years.   He is  very                                                              
familiar  with  the guiding  industry  because  his father  was  a                                                              
guide in  Alaska during his  childhood.   Mr. Wilson said  that he                                                              
has flown for several different guides throughout the years.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:05:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GUTTENBERG inquired  whether a perceived  conflict                                                              
of interest  might be seen  due to Mr.  Wilson's being in  the air                                                              
flying and guiding business and being on this commission.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR.  WILSON   explained  that   when  transporting   hunters,  his                                                              
business  is operating  under  its  transporter license  and  must                                                              
comply  with all of  the associated  regulations  and must  have a                                                              
"135 air  taxi certificate".   He  remarked that  it gets  down to                                                              
having a  limited resource  and that one  of the biggest  problems                                                              
is conflicts  between  user groups  and the types  of access  that                                                              
people have.   There  is, and will  be, conflicts between  guides,                                                              
transporters,  guides   that  use  horses,  and   guides  who  use                                                              
airplanes,  and  with  residents   who  are  out  on  their  four-                                                              
wheelers;  therefore he  cannot say  that there  are no  conflicts                                                              
between  people who  use  airplanes and  people  who do  not.   He                                                              
stated that  he chooses  to transport his  hunters by  air because                                                              
it is a low-impact  way to get people out to  uncrowded areas.  He                                                              
acknowledged  that there  is some  conflict  amongst other  groups                                                              
and his group,  but that those  conflicts will be there  no matter                                                              
who it is.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:09:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON  reminisced about  the four years  she lived                                                              
in Tok and  the time that she  flew over the Tok River  with Leif.                                                              
She thanked him for doing a good job at what he does.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:09:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  GATTO  noted  that Mr.  Wilson's  application  is  dated                                                              
3/15/06 and  asked if it is typical  for an application  to take a                                                              
year to come before the legislature.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. WILSON  explained that  he was  originally appointed  a little                                                              
over a  year ago  by then-Governor  Murkowski.   He was  appointed                                                              
late  and  only  served  a  portion of  a  term.    Therefore,  he                                                              
surmised, it is  his original application that  is probably before                                                              
the committee.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  GATTO  inquired  whether  there  is  anything  that  Mr.                                                              
Wilson would like to add to his application.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  WILSON  said  that  the  only  thing  he  would  add  is  the                                                              
experience he  has gained by  being on the  board for the  last 14                                                              
months.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:11:14 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOHNSON  asked Mr. Wilson to  state why he would  like to                                                              
be re-appointed.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR.  WILSON  responded   that  he  is  thankful   the  legislature                                                              
reinstated  the  board because  it  is  necessary and  people  are                                                              
needed to make a difference and do some good.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:11:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR GATTO  inquired as to  whether Mr. Wilson,  his children,                                                              
or employees have had any past violations of fish and game laws.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. WILSON  stated that he  did not, and that  he did not  know of                                                              
any violations by his family members or employees.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
^Board of Game                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:12:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOHNSON  determined that the  second nominee for  the Big                                                              
Game Commercial Services  Board was not yet on  the teleconference                                                              
line.  He then  announced that the second order  of business would                                                              
be the confirmation hearing for the Board of Game.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
1:12:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  JOHNSON  declared a  conflict  of interest  because  Bob                                                              
Bell,  a   Board  of   Game  appointee,   is  a  constituent   who                                                              
contributed to  his election  campaign.  He  requested that  he be                                                              
excluded from voting.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  noted that the  committee does not  vote on                                                              
confirmations,   it  only  reviews   the  qualifications   of  the                                                              
appointees  and forwards the  names of  qualified applicants  to a                                                              
joint [floor session].                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON  declared that  she personally knows  two of                                                              
the appointees.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROSES stated that he also knows Mr. Bell.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:14:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOHNSON asked  Mr. Bell to state why he  would like to be                                                              
appointed.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
BOB  BELL, Appointee  to the  Board of  Game, stated  that he  has                                                              
been hunting  in Alaska for 37 years.   The main reason,  he said,                                                              
is that  he sees  a lot  of things happening  for which  something                                                              
could be done  and that the Board  of Game is the best  vehicle to                                                              
do that.  He  said that he could help make things  better and that                                                              
he would bring the perspective of a "wildlife user".                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:15:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  GATTO  asked  whether  the four  individuals  listed  as                                                              
references  on page  2  of Mr.  Bell's November  2006  application                                                              
would still be current.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. BELL stated yes.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:16:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON  inquired  whether  the term  "user"  means                                                              
that Mr. Bell is a hunter or a guide.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BELL  responded  that he  has  never  been  a guide  for  any                                                              
commercial activity as  far as fish and game is  concerned, so his                                                              
experience is  as a  user.  For  example, he has  a moose  camp in                                                              
Unit 16B  that he  and his friends  set up twenty  years ago.   He                                                              
said that  this unit  is now  closed to  moose hunting  because of                                                              
predation  by  both humans  and  animals;  therefore he  sees  the                                                              
impacts  of  policies  that  did not  protect  the  moose  quickly                                                              
enough.  "That  is the kind of  thing that I think I  can bring to                                                              
the board,"  he said,  "... we  should have  done something  about                                                              
this   sooner."     In   response   to  further   questions   from                                                              
Representative Seaton,  Mr. Bell stated  that he was a  trapper as                                                              
a kid in Washington,  but never in Alaska.  He  confirmed that his                                                              
use of wildlife is as a sport hunter.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:18:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GUTTENBERG   directed  attention  to   Mr.  Bell's                                                              
application  where it  states that  he  is a  strong advocate  for                                                              
predator control.   If science indicates that problems  are due to                                                              
habitat or  disease and not predators,  will you stand  behind the                                                              
science, he asked.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. BELL answered  yes, that he is an engineer and  so he tends to                                                              
side with science.   He said that he thinks predator  control is a                                                              
good tool  that can be used  to manage game populations  properly.                                                              
This is  done by studying the  population to determine  what needs                                                              
to be done.   If predator control  is not the right tool,  then it                                                              
should  not be  used.    He noted  that  there are  208  proposals                                                              
coming before the  board next week and the field  work for several                                                              
proposals  shows that  in  some  areas the  moose  have eaten  the                                                              
willows down  to the point where  there is not enough  to recover.                                                              
For example, he  said, this is happening on the  lower Yukon River                                                              
where the [moose]  population is jumping by 27 percent  a year, so                                                              
predator control would not be warranted there.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:20:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   GUTTENBERG  requested   Mr.  Bell's   opinion  on                                                              
expanding  the   boundaries  of   the  McNeil  River   State  Game                                                              
Sanctuary, an issue that is before the Board of Game.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BELL  explained  that  his  knowledge  of  the  McNeil  River                                                              
situation  is what  he  has read  in the  newspaper,  a couple  of                                                              
short  discussions  with  board  chairman Ron  Somerville,  and  a                                                              
brief discussion  with the  governor.  He  stated that he  has not                                                              
had the opportunity  to sit down with Alaska Department  of Fish &                                                              
Game  (ADF&G) staff  to go  into  the details.   He  said that  he                                                              
knows  there is  considerable controversy  on the  issue, both  in                                                              
the  Lower  48 and  Alaska.    The  biology  must be  reviewed  to                                                              
determine  what  is best  for  the  population and  the  political                                                              
realities must also  be looked at.  He said that  these two things                                                              
will drive the board's decision.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:22:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ROSES inquired  whether  he  heard correctly  that                                                              
there are 208 proposals before the Board of Game.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. BELL stated yes.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:23:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON presented  a  hypothetical  example in  the                                                              
McNeil   River  area   where   biologists   determine  that   bear                                                              
populations  are declining  and should  not be  hunted.  He  asked                                                              
Mr.  Bell  whether   his  user  philosophy  would   over-ride  the                                                              
biologists' recommendations.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BELL  replied   that  he  would  tend  to   follow  what  the                                                              
biologists are suggesting.   As a user of fish and  game, he wants                                                              
to make  sure these populations  are sustainable, and  this cannot                                                              
be done  if the science  is not followed.   He said that  when the                                                              
"take"  is too  high, neither  the [wildlife]  population nor  the                                                              
users are helped.   He said that he will listen  very carefully to                                                              
what ADF&G has to say.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:25:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOHNSON  addressed the next Board of  Game appointee, Ben                                                              
Grussendorf,  and asked  him  to state  why  he would  like to  be                                                              
appointed.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
BEN GRUSSENDORF,  Appointee to the  Board of Game,  responded that                                                              
this is something  he has always  been interested in.   He grew up                                                              
in northern  Minnesota and  has spent  40 years  in Alaska.   Even                                                              
when he was in  the legislative body, people  with questions about                                                              
wildlife and  birds would come to him.   He said he  would like to                                                              
believe  that the  people  he works  for  understand  that he  has                                                              
spent a lot of  time in the field, that he  is knowledgeable about                                                              
wildlife  and wildlife  issues, and  that in  deliberations he  is                                                              
thoughtful and  fair.  When  he is in  doubt on making  a decision                                                              
dealing with  wildlife management,  he said,  he will  always give                                                              
the  benefit of  the doubt  to the  beating heart  of the  critter                                                              
that is  being talked about.   If he is  going to err in  making a                                                              
decision, he  hopes it is on  the side of conservation  because he                                                              
does not  mind people being  upset with him  for a season  or two,                                                              
but he certainly  does not want them  to be angry for  10 years or                                                              
more  by  a  decision  that  has caused  a  problem  with  a  game                                                              
population.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:27:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR GATTO  stated that the  trouble with predator  control is                                                              
that it is picking  which heart to deal with and  therefore he was                                                              
puzzled by Mr. Grussendorf's statement.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. GRUSSENDORF responded  that when he is "in  doubt" and unsure,                                                              
he will  give the benefit  of that doubt  to the beating  heart of                                                              
the animal being  discussed.  He said that sometimes  there is not                                                              
a doubt;  for instance  there are  five predator controlled  areas                                                              
in the  state where there  was not much doubt.   He noted  that he                                                              
did have  concern with  Unit 16B for  awhile, but that  biological                                                              
information  was later  received as  to which  predator was  doing                                                              
what between the  wolves, black bears, and brown bears.   If he is                                                              
given the data, then he does not have any doubts.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:28:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR GATTO said  that he is still unsure  what Mr. Grussendorf                                                              
means because  there is a  wolf beating  heart and a  calf beating                                                              
heart and the two are in competition with each other.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  GRUSSENDORF, using  moose  as an  example,  explained that  a                                                              
decision is  made by first  determining how  many moose are  in an                                                              
area,  the  carrying  capacity of  the  habitat,  the  cow-to-calf                                                              
ratio, and  the bull-to-cow  ratio and  whether they are  breeding                                                              
bulls.  Then, you  make your decision.  A situation  was discussed                                                              
earlier where  a 27  percent increase in  the moose  population is                                                              
causing  habitat problems  - you  would take  a different  view of                                                              
predator  activity then,  as well  as  the human  harvest.   Every                                                              
situation  is  different  with  the beating  of  given  hearts  in                                                              
different game management areas.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:30:46 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WILSON commented  that this takes  a lot  of time,                                                              
especially  for  people who  enjoy  being  outside, and  that  she                                                              
appreciates their willingness and sacrifice to serve.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:31:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOHNSON closed the Board of Game confirmation hearing.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
^Big Game Commercial Services Board                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:31:36 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  JOHNSON announced  the committee's  return to the  first                                                              
order  of business,  the  confirmation hearing  for  the Big  Game                                                              
Commercial Services  Board.  He asked appointee  Richard Rohrer to                                                              
state why he would like to serve on the board.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
RICHARD  ROHRER, Appointee  to the  Big  Game Commercial  Services                                                              
Board, stated that  he is a master guide and has  made a living in                                                              
the guide industry  since coming to Alaska in 1965.   He said that                                                              
he has  served for two years  since the board's  reinstatement and                                                              
that  the board  is working  very well  together.   It has been  a                                                              
positive experience,  he remarked, and  that is why he  is willing                                                              
to serve another term.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:32:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR GATTO noted  that Mr. Rohrer's application  is dated July                                                              
2005 and  was submitted  to the  previous governor.   He  asked if                                                              
another application was submitted.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. ROHRER stated  that he did not submit another  application and                                                              
that nothing  has changed since  his first application, so  he has                                                              
no new information.   In response  to a further question  from Co-                                                              
Chair Gatto,  he confirmed  that neither he,  his family,  nor his                                                              
employees  have  had  any  fish   and  game  violations,  charges,                                                              
convictions,  or  accusations.    He assured  the  committee  that                                                              
there is  nothing in his record  that will bring  embarrassment to                                                              
the legislature or to the governor.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:34:18 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  moved that  the nominations of  Leif Wilson                                                              
and  Richard  Rohrer,  appointees   to  the  Big  Game  Commercial                                                              
Services  Board,   and  the  nominations  of  Bob   Bell  and  Ben                                                              
Grussendorf,  appointees to the  Board of  Game, be forwarded  for                                                              
consideration  by   a  joint  floor  session.     There  being  no                                                              
objection, the confirmations were advanced.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:35:18 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being  no further business  before the committee,  the House                                                              
Resources Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 1:35 p.m.                                                                 

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